Mark…so here is my follow up…I have a super hard time resolving what has become of John Joseph of the Cro Mags. I get that that band is a unique Petrie dish of a ton of nonsense. I do not for the life of me get it. But I really struggle with John’s change into a strange anti vaxx conspiracy guy. I still read and buy his books, just less enthusiastic about it. But throwing a concert in the middle of the surge in NYC, and the surrounding blathering nonsense that went with it, soured me on that end of the pool.
You did an interview with a guy and guns became a topic, which was sort of unexpected. But eventually in the podcast you talked about these sort of silos in the outdoor type people communities. Whatever that was was super nuanced and of substance. I appreciated it.
The anti vaxx thing, while when articulated well can be reasonable. But I never see it done well.
And now, the deeper water. It is rough when we want the people we respect to be as articulate on topic X as they have been on topic Y, and that their emotional response to a particular subject and situation be consistent with our own. A lot of people went haywire during Covid. I had a ten-day period where I actively believed all of the information being circulated but then woke up; the absolute certainty with which that information was broadcast should have been the clue I heeded immediately instead of taking so long to return to my skepticism. I did observe at the time that the intensity of much of the anti-authoritarian response was triggered by the intensity of the initial authoritarian action. No one appreciates being told that their work, and often their identity, was "non-essential" or that certain groups were given preferential treatment and attention, both positive and negative and the decision matrix made no fucking sense. We are all affected by the sources we gravitate to for information, and the groups we are in, and this can take us down some messed-up rabbit holes.
Also, thank you for sticking with the podcast, even if the topic was off-putting at first glance. It's important for us to observe and understand our own reactivity, and even question it, because when ideas are presented, someone, somewhere has thought about them a lot, perhaps (likely) more than we have. And granting authoritarians a monopoly on force should go against any citizen's ideals, regardless of where they stand when looking towards the center.
So, as a victim of gun violence (twice) I struggle with HEARING talk of guns. I like shooting guns, and cleaning guns, and learning about guns. But, gun culture like so many things, seems so superficial and lame. So sticking with that episode was cool, because it went some where else.
The thing becomes, superficiality in almost everything. I think it’s why long term anything is interesting. You hope to find something in the 7th year. I like hearing someone like Courtney Dauwalter speak on running, because at 75 miles or where ever, it becomes something else
Yes, the 7th year, the 75th mile, the long haul, it's where the change begins to occur. I was talking with a friend yesterday about just that and he called it, "the ten year long overnight success."
I'm with you on most gun culture, rather the most visible aspect of it. My view, as you learned, has come from long practice, many, many training courses, years of competing, years of training and working with military personnel. It is not superficial. There is a lot of cosplay and posturing in that world, the seriousness of which would appear to demand deep thought, consideration, and practice but many won't or don't and that shines a negative light on the activity and its people.
I had typed a few cool stories. But let me try this. My good friend Paul is a person who teaches people to be police officers at a local college, and teaches police officers how to be better police officers. Obviously, if you saw Black Flag when you were 11, and somehow think Chuck D partially raises you, you do not have a lot of police friends. But, I taught at the college, and we became buds. He and I talked about guns a lot, A LOT. Police students had to wear the utility belt, or whatever, with an orange firearm when they were on campus. I found that endlessly fascinating. Until you think about a thing, or see a thing, its just whatever you always thought of it. And police beat up skateboarders and punk rock art fags when I was a boy. So fuck em. But, Paul was my friend, so I would ask a lot of questions in the hopes of resolving that internal conflict. And like a good teacher and friend, he just sat there like a Buddha eating a salad letting me work through it. I am not through it. Police officers still harass skateboarders and the skatepark I built.
So, Paul one time asked if I wanted to learn to shoot. I had NO DESIRE. Then he asked again. So I said yes. And we spent a lot of time learning to shoot an air soft rifle. A lot of time. And I learned, that very much like swimming, there is a lot to take on there, technique wise. And Paul was a good probably great teacher. And we never ever ever ever ever talked about the nonsense gun stuff that I assumed would come up. None of the cosplay.
Then eventually he taught me how to take a fire arm apart. Then what was in a bullet. And all the rest.
And eventually I shot a regular firearm. By that point the strangeness and cosplay was gone. And I was hundreds of hours, and at least 4 serious skills, before I got a 22 in my hands. And separating all of the other stuff, from the technique was amazing.
I was lucky to have a friend like that. Paul knew about the incidents, and maybe that’s just what allowed for such a long on ramp to the fire arm. Plus, he was and is a caring friend, so that might have just been his way.
Its that thing about GETTING THROUGH to another side. Right? 10 thousand hours. 200 miles. A 15 thousand meter set in the pool. Squating whatever. That John Long ‘Workout From Hell’ thing. You get to the other side.
I love seeing it in others. My niece is a climber, on a team, and going on weekends and just watching her climb at the gym for HOURS, you see it. She is one sort of climber in that first hour, and by the third hour, she is a different person. I really like that. Its like long yoga or stretching sessions.
I remember the WFH well. I was convinced of its utility for a while, got through some many weeks of it in '91 or '92 but — either to due to individual chemistry or my particular starting point — the result was indeed the mass/weight gain JL assured us would not happen. Regardless, the better result was more inquiry, practice, and eventually proper coaches for the training. And I still occasionally do a few 30-rep sets mostly for the mindfuck of it all.
The story of Paul and your lengthy, attentive introduction is exactly how the activity should be introduced and taught. I too was fortunate to have several good mentors, guys who cared enough to take their time. As a student my goal was to never let them down, which focused my own attention and time.
As I have aged, utility or something like it I imagine, is no longer a thing. I mean, I was with a physical therapist for over a decade so you cannot just shut that off…but I want to have GOOD swims….the watch is less of a thing. I want the weights to be the same. I want to come out of the weight room spent. I want the exhaustion and mindfuck of it all, because they tend to lead to that cool joyous something or other hours later.
If a band (or book) piques your interest, there’s always a rabbit hole. One of life’s fun lessons.
'It's not about standing still and becoming safe. If anybody wants to keep creating they have to be about change.' - Miles Davis
Yes!
Mark…so here is my follow up…I have a super hard time resolving what has become of John Joseph of the Cro Mags. I get that that band is a unique Petrie dish of a ton of nonsense. I do not for the life of me get it. But I really struggle with John’s change into a strange anti vaxx conspiracy guy. I still read and buy his books, just less enthusiastic about it. But throwing a concert in the middle of the surge in NYC, and the surrounding blathering nonsense that went with it, soured me on that end of the pool.
You did an interview with a guy and guns became a topic, which was sort of unexpected. But eventually in the podcast you talked about these sort of silos in the outdoor type people communities. Whatever that was was super nuanced and of substance. I appreciated it.
The anti vaxx thing, while when articulated well can be reasonable. But I never see it done well.
And now, the deeper water. It is rough when we want the people we respect to be as articulate on topic X as they have been on topic Y, and that their emotional response to a particular subject and situation be consistent with our own. A lot of people went haywire during Covid. I had a ten-day period where I actively believed all of the information being circulated but then woke up; the absolute certainty with which that information was broadcast should have been the clue I heeded immediately instead of taking so long to return to my skepticism. I did observe at the time that the intensity of much of the anti-authoritarian response was triggered by the intensity of the initial authoritarian action. No one appreciates being told that their work, and often their identity, was "non-essential" or that certain groups were given preferential treatment and attention, both positive and negative and the decision matrix made no fucking sense. We are all affected by the sources we gravitate to for information, and the groups we are in, and this can take us down some messed-up rabbit holes.
Also, thank you for sticking with the podcast, even if the topic was off-putting at first glance. It's important for us to observe and understand our own reactivity, and even question it, because when ideas are presented, someone, somewhere has thought about them a lot, perhaps (likely) more than we have. And granting authoritarians a monopoly on force should go against any citizen's ideals, regardless of where they stand when looking towards the center.
So, as a victim of gun violence (twice) I struggle with HEARING talk of guns. I like shooting guns, and cleaning guns, and learning about guns. But, gun culture like so many things, seems so superficial and lame. So sticking with that episode was cool, because it went some where else.
The thing becomes, superficiality in almost everything. I think it’s why long term anything is interesting. You hope to find something in the 7th year. I like hearing someone like Courtney Dauwalter speak on running, because at 75 miles or where ever, it becomes something else
I dig when I can hear about the something else.
Yes, the 7th year, the 75th mile, the long haul, it's where the change begins to occur. I was talking with a friend yesterday about just that and he called it, "the ten year long overnight success."
I'm with you on most gun culture, rather the most visible aspect of it. My view, as you learned, has come from long practice, many, many training courses, years of competing, years of training and working with military personnel. It is not superficial. There is a lot of cosplay and posturing in that world, the seriousness of which would appear to demand deep thought, consideration, and practice but many won't or don't and that shines a negative light on the activity and its people.
I had typed a few cool stories. But let me try this. My good friend Paul is a person who teaches people to be police officers at a local college, and teaches police officers how to be better police officers. Obviously, if you saw Black Flag when you were 11, and somehow think Chuck D partially raises you, you do not have a lot of police friends. But, I taught at the college, and we became buds. He and I talked about guns a lot, A LOT. Police students had to wear the utility belt, or whatever, with an orange firearm when they were on campus. I found that endlessly fascinating. Until you think about a thing, or see a thing, its just whatever you always thought of it. And police beat up skateboarders and punk rock art fags when I was a boy. So fuck em. But, Paul was my friend, so I would ask a lot of questions in the hopes of resolving that internal conflict. And like a good teacher and friend, he just sat there like a Buddha eating a salad letting me work through it. I am not through it. Police officers still harass skateboarders and the skatepark I built.
So, Paul one time asked if I wanted to learn to shoot. I had NO DESIRE. Then he asked again. So I said yes. And we spent a lot of time learning to shoot an air soft rifle. A lot of time. And I learned, that very much like swimming, there is a lot to take on there, technique wise. And Paul was a good probably great teacher. And we never ever ever ever ever talked about the nonsense gun stuff that I assumed would come up. None of the cosplay.
Then eventually he taught me how to take a fire arm apart. Then what was in a bullet. And all the rest.
And eventually I shot a regular firearm. By that point the strangeness and cosplay was gone. And I was hundreds of hours, and at least 4 serious skills, before I got a 22 in my hands. And separating all of the other stuff, from the technique was amazing.
I was lucky to have a friend like that. Paul knew about the incidents, and maybe that’s just what allowed for such a long on ramp to the fire arm. Plus, he was and is a caring friend, so that might have just been his way.
Its that thing about GETTING THROUGH to another side. Right? 10 thousand hours. 200 miles. A 15 thousand meter set in the pool. Squating whatever. That John Long ‘Workout From Hell’ thing. You get to the other side.
I love seeing it in others. My niece is a climber, on a team, and going on weekends and just watching her climb at the gym for HOURS, you see it. She is one sort of climber in that first hour, and by the third hour, she is a different person. I really like that. Its like long yoga or stretching sessions.
https://web.mit.edu/~yandros/doc/TWFH.html
I remember the WFH well. I was convinced of its utility for a while, got through some many weeks of it in '91 or '92 but — either to due to individual chemistry or my particular starting point — the result was indeed the mass/weight gain JL assured us would not happen. Regardless, the better result was more inquiry, practice, and eventually proper coaches for the training. And I still occasionally do a few 30-rep sets mostly for the mindfuck of it all.
The story of Paul and your lengthy, attentive introduction is exactly how the activity should be introduced and taught. I too was fortunate to have several good mentors, guys who cared enough to take their time. As a student my goal was to never let them down, which focused my own attention and time.
As I have aged, utility or something like it I imagine, is no longer a thing. I mean, I was with a physical therapist for over a decade so you cannot just shut that off…but I want to have GOOD swims….the watch is less of a thing. I want the weights to be the same. I want to come out of the weight room spent. I want the exhaustion and mindfuck of it all, because they tend to lead to that cool joyous something or other hours later.